I came up with the idea of JEW-ISH after Wiley’s antisemitic Twitter rant earlier this year. Wiley was spewing the same old tired, antisemitic tropes that have been circulating for centuries, and whilst I was shocked, angered and frustrated, I was unfortunately not surprised to see that there were many people who still very much believed him. I came to the realisation that most people who believe these myths aren’t necessarily antisemitic, and they’re definitely not bad people — they’ve probably just never come into contact with a Jewish person before. Jews make up just 0.2% of the world’s population, so if you don’t live near a Jewish community, chances are you won’t have much of a chance to familiarise yourself with the nuances of Judaism. The danger here is that people will take it upon themselves to find their facts about Judaism online, and of course, be confronted with the same misinformation that inspires people like Wiley.
I came to the conclusion that a podcast was the best way to confront these issues. Twitter is a cesspool, inhabited with people who do not want to engage in dialogue, but only want to fight from the safety of their computer screen. My main aim was to dispel the myths that people believe to be true about Judaism — myths that are so widespread they’re almost part of the make up of our society. For example, here’s one we’ve all heard before: Jews have too much money. Some of my non-Jewish friends have spoken to me about this, and questioned why this is considered to be a bad thing. What’s bad about saying that Jews have too much money, or Jews are good at business, or Jews control Hollywood? Surely these are good things? I’m not going to get into the historical roots of that particular trope right now (you’ll find a good explanation of that in episode 6 of JEW-ISH with Lev Taylor), but in my opinion, the only way to combat these harmful stereotypes is by hearing it from a Jewish perspective. I wanted this podcast to serve as a useful tool to both Jews and non-Jews. I wanted non-Jews to hear the podcast and learn about the issues facing Jewish people, and I wanted Jews to hear it and find comfort in hearing about the experiences of other Jews, and perhaps find the strength to speak out against antisemitism when they encounter it in their own lives.
The first episode I recorded was with my friend Ash Kenazi. I play guitar in Ash’s band Happyness, and Ash is also a drag queen who uses elements of his Jewish identity in his drag performance. I was excited to have a frank, open and honest discussion with Ash about various issues facing the Jewish community, and of course, the elephant in the room, Israel. Ash and I both went on the same Jewish summer camp, and have similar experiences when it comes to what we were taught about Israel when we were younger. We were shown a very one-sided view of Israel; travelling around the country, staying at Kibbutzim, meeting amazing people, kissing girls, and ultimately having the time of our lives. Our perceptions were challenged later on in life when we were introduced to the narrative of the Palestinian people, which was something that was never really talked about when we were children. Ash spoke about how he felt like he was ‘taken for a fool.’ I related to this. As I grew older, I grew more and more resentful of my one-sided education about Israel. I knew all the words to the Israeli national anthem, and yet I wasn’t aware of the people that inhabited Israel before 1948.
Next, I spoke to Eve Barlow. Eve has been one of the most outspoken voices in defence of Israel as a Jewish homeland, and is a self-proclaimed Zionist. Eve is a believer in a two-state solution, that is, a solution that allows Israelis and Palestinians to live side by side together. She doesn’t subscribe to terms like ‘pro-Israel’ or ‘pro-Palestinian,’ instead favouring a ‘pro-peace’ stance. Whilst she would never ignore the voices of the Palestinian people or seek to minimise their oppression, she also refuses attempts to minimise or ignore the plight of the Jewish people, and the role that Israel serves as a place of refuge to Jews around the world, not only in Europe and America, but to Jews in the MENA regions who face a very real threat of displacement and expulsion from their communities to this day. Eve’s perspective resonated with me, because it offered a solution — a solution to how Israel and Palestine can move forward peacefully together, and a solution to what many Jewish people see as a very real connection to the land of Israel, and the sense of safety that this brings to the world’s Jewish population.
Upon introducing this idea to Lev Taylor, a trainee Rabbi, he offered a slightly different view of how Israel plays a part in Judaism. He said that in fact, most Jewish history happened outside of Israel, and that for the last few hundred years we have built our communities, beliefs and religious practices around living in the diaspora. While the historical connection to Israel and its presence in Jewish liturgy can’t be denied, is that therefore enough reason to justify a modern state of Israel? He rejected the claim that Israel is a guarantor to the safety of the Jewish population, that he doesn’t feel the need to be ‘repatriated’ to Israel, and that the answer to the question of Jewish safety shouldn’t be to build smaller and more enclosed political states. I also felt a connection with this perspective. My mum grew up in Israel, but she’s English through and through. My grandparents decided to make Aliyah when she was 13 years old, and my grandpa, or ‘Saba’ as we called him in Hebrew, was possibly the most intensely English person I have ever seen or heard in my life. He was like a character lifted from an old black and white film. So although I have a physical connection to Israel, I have always struggled slightly with my emotional connection to Israel. Being told Israel is categorically the Jewish homeland is one thing, but believing it is another, especially when you’ve spent your life growing up in North London.
Ben Freeman, who has recently written a book on Jewish pride, said that questioning the existence of the state of Israel is inherently antisemitic, and isn’t something that should even enter into a debate. When we discuss other global issues, for example China’s treatment of the Uighur people, Azerbaijan’s treatment of the Armenian people, America’s treatment of black people (the list goes on), the conclusion is never to dismantle said country. Yet for some reason, when we debate Israel, this is the conclusion that many people will arrive at. In order to have a productive debate about Israel and Palestine relations, surely we need to talk about Israel as you would talk about any other country, otherwise it is tempting to wonder what it is about Israel that gets people so incensed that they feel driven to dismantle it.
As you can probably tell by this almost Talmudic analysis, what started as a podcast about Jews quickly evolved into a podcast about Israel. This is not what I intended it to become, but it’s a subject that is possibly the most contentious aspect of what it means to be a Jew today, so naturally a lot of my guests have strong views on the matter. If you say you’re Jewish to someone, out of the many possible reactions in that moment, a common one is to ask you what your stance on Israel is. I resent being made to pick a side just because I’m Jewish. I’ve been introduced to so many different perspectives through doing this podcast, and I wholeheartedly agree with them all. I see myself as a true liberal, which means that I will always seek to understand and empathise with the other side of the narrative before I formulate my opinions on an issue. Like most liberals, I draw the line at bigotry. I would never interview anyone who sought to minimise the oppression of the Palestinian people, or seek to minimise the oppression of the Jews, as both voices are valid and should be given the respect they deserve. Despite the differing views of my guests, one common thread we all share is that we all believe in working towards peace.
When I released episode 12 with liberal Zionist Hilary Hawn, it was picked up by a Jewish organisation called Jewdas, who vocally reject the Jewish relationship with Israel, and seek to bring the unfair and unjust treatment of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israeli government to light. They have been complimentary in the past about my interview with Lev Taylor, but they took issue with Hilary’s views on Zionism. She claimed that Zionism often gets misinterpreted, and that by the nature of her Zionism, she is strongly in favour of both Israelis and Palestinians to self-determine in their respective homelands. Jewdas’ stance is that Zionism is a racist political movement and doesn’t get to be defined by its supporters, only the people who suffer at the hands of it. Before I knew it I was at the centre of a pile-on from their 30,000 followers, being labelled as a white supremacist, and someone who is in favour of apartheid and white colonialism. My instinct was to start a conversation. Jewdas also represents a Jewish perspective, and so I was keen to learn more from them about their views and perhaps even invite them on the podcast. Unfortunately, as the replies began to stray more and more into antisemitic territory, I decided to delete what I had written and block who I needed to block. Most people on Twitter aren’t there to listen, they are there to shout and intimidate. I realised that by engaging in these online debates I was fighting a battle where there would be no winner. Online arguments such as these are the reason why I wanted to start this podcast — to cut through the vitriol, flippancy and bullying, and create something that people can ultimately use as a way to learn and grow.
One question I often ask my guests is how they gauge when criticism of Israel becomes antisemitic. It’s an answer that stays more or less the same, but I still struggle with it. Natan Sharansky’s Three D’s of Antisemitism, or 3D test, often gets brought up. The 3D test is a set of criteria used to distinguish legitimate criticism of Israel from antisemitism. They are demonisation, delegitimisation, and double standards. Double standards is the one that confuses me the most. When people have strong and vocal criticisms of Israel, and yet take no interest in any other global conflict or oppressed peoples, does that make their criticisms less valid? Does that indicate an inherent antisemitic bias? Or is it a case of deflection and whataboutism to bring up other global conflicts when confronted with very real and legitimate criticisms of the Israeli government?
As the podcast continues, I often find myself wondering whether it’s doing more harm than good. A few people have emailed me, both Jews and non-Jews, to say that they really appreciate what the podcast offers and that they’ve learned a lot from listening to it. Clearly I’ve started a conversation, but in many ways I find myself more confused about my own views than when I started.
At the end of every episode, I ask my guests what they think we can do as Jews to help prevent antisemitism in the future. More often than not, the answer is education. We need to be open with our Jewishness, not hide it away as so many Jews, including myself, have often been taught to do. There came a point in my life when I became so frustrated with people’s misconceptions about Judaism that I stopped revealing the fact that I was Jewish entirely. Today, it feels like the Jewish community is waking up and embracing their Jewish pride. Jews are starting to embrace their identity and their culture, and be open about what their Judaism means to them. The only hope for a better future is that people will start to listen.